AdventurePod English 4 – Transcript (Che interview part 2)
This is the second and last part of the Che interview series. Part 1 of the interview was a video and audio podcast called ‘AdventurePod English 3.’
[ Che Interview part 1 transcript | video page | podcast/audio page ]
==== BEGIN CHE INTERVIEW PART 2 =======
John: Is it [Tokyo] a lot different than San Francisco, the biggest city close to where you are from?
Che: How is it different? I mean, I would say the people in San Francisco seem to be- I seem to see a lot more younger people running around.
John: In San Francisco.
Che: No. In Tokyo.
John: In Tokyo.
Che: Yeah. A lot of younger people seem to be out and about. I do not really see that when I am going around San Francisco. So that is interesting, I think.
John: I know my brother used to live in San Francisco, and I know I have been there a few times. And there is a lot of liberalism. There is a lot of movements. There is a lot of protests. There is a lot of people trying to change society. Did you find any of that in Tokyo, that liberal, progressive, let’s form a group. Let’s change things.
Che: Well, I think now we are really getting to the extremes of cultures, Western to Eastern, to some degree. I think in the West people are thinking on a much more sort of individual basis. And here in Japan, people are looking at sort of the harmony of the group or whole.
John: The collective.
Che: Yeah. And, no, I do not think that Japan necessarily is a rebellious or revolutionary society. They kind of go along with the flow to a large degree. So, yeah, you do not see protests very often in Japan.
John: Yeah. Also, Matsumoto was saying the same kind of answer. People tend to conform and to be honest, there is a lot of good things in Japan. I mean, healthcare and education, these basic things in society. There is not a lot of poverty, so there is not. It is too easy to say there is not so many things to rebel against, but big things like those three things I just mentioned are a little more equal and comfortable and let’s say sorted out in Japan, I think, in my opinion.
Che: Yeah. I think so, too. And I think people are living a very sort of, in some ways, yeah. I do not know. A very- I hesitate to use the word “methodical†lifestyle, but they have a very large loyalty to their workplace.
John: And their way.
Che: Yeah.
John: Way of life.
Che: Yeah. And the students have a great responsibility to their studies. I think much more so than in the West. There is a stronger study ethic. There is a much more demand to get placement in a good high school and, yeah, and to pass these exams at an early age, sort of determines one’s future really in Japan, where there is not that intensity of study in the younger years where. It is kind of funny that once they do end up getting into their college of choice, then things really relax and things are a lot easier. And I think things are maybe the opposite in the West within the school systems. Yeah.
John: I have found some of those same things. Let’s turn to food. What is your favorite Japanese food? Tell me about your favorites.
Che: The first thing that comes to mind is natto.
John: Natto. Oh, my God. He likes natto.
Che: Which is a fermented soybean, and the first food that I actually tried in Japan and I think of it.
John: I also eat natto, but most foreigners do not.
Che: I think of it more of a sport than a food almost because, you know
John: Eating Natto is a sport.
Che: It is small like styrofoam, square capsules that are filled with these beans. And you stir them.
John: It is sticky and it is grainy.
Che: Like going all over the place. You can wrap around and stand around. You can cover the whole room in about five minutes, so it is- yeah. It can be kind of like a game or a food.
John: The sport eating Nattos. The Natto and what other things do you like?
Che: Something called inarizushi, which is- the pronunciation, not certain. Rice inside a fried tofu wrap. They come in these triangular cubes and you will find them in family marts or 7-11 convenience stores throughout Japan.
John: I also like that.
Che: And that is a nice snack.
John: Any waste favor foods, something you just cannot eat in Japan. They eat some strange stuff here.
Che: I have not found anything that really stood out that I do not like. Well, I am vegetarian, so this limits my selection to a great extent. I mean, I do not think I would be eating live fish. This is something. Even if I was not vegetarian, I do not think I would
John: Raw fish.
Che: Be eating. No. Live fish.
John: Oh, live fish.
Che: Live fish. They are still kicking around in the bowls and you stick them and they kind of swim down your arm.
John: And live squid, or raw squid. Yeah, some of these things.
Che: And it amazes me even to this, still to this day, with all the political sort of pressure that is put on Japan in this area, that there are still restaurants that are serving whale, which is.
John: Whale.
Che: Really quite disturbing, I think.
John: Yeah. Yeah, definitely. All in all I am a brother in vegetarianism with Che, also. I find it with all the different tofu and mushroom seaweed, good rice, I find it is very- fresh vegetables, it is a good place to be a vegetarian, I find.
Che: I think if you are cooking for yourself, it can be quite a good place to be a vegetarian. If you are going out, you are going to find most of the things are cooked with a meat broth, the Ramen.
John: That’s true.
Che: Some kind of meat or fish stock will be included, so I do not think it is so easy to eat out. But tempura is a wonderful way to go.
John: Lightly fried, lightly battered and fried vegetables or whatever.
Che: Yeah.
John: Tempura.
Che: So this is good. Around Tokyo is quite cosmopolitan. So there is Indian places and Tai places. And a great experience is to go out to the izakayas where you get tofu dishes and such. And people gather on small tables, not the tatami mat floors, and it is a good place to socialize, good place to make a party.
John: Yeah. In Japan we generally sit on the floor on this comfortable tatami natural fiber mat. It is very comfortable. I really like it.
Che: And I would say not to forget to check out nomihoudai when you go to Tokyo. I mean, this is the place where it is an all-you-can-drink kind of place for a few hours and, yeah, this is another good place to have a party.
John: What is that? What is the name again?
Che: They are just generally called namirodi’s.
John: Namirodi’s.
Che: Namirodi’s.
John: Sounds like there is plenty of things to do in Tokyo. Let’s move it to looking at your past, Che. I know I have had many conversations with Che about some interesting things he has done, places he has been in the past. What have you done? Where have you been? What have you learned? You have I think an interesting background.
Che: O.k. Well, my first trip after leaving the States was first going to Australia. So my first big adventure was an underwater adventure. It was scuba diving. I went and did a five-day PADI course on The Great Barrier Reef. And this was incredible, because, my gosh, I never imagined that just underneath surface lies just a completely other world. So this was an amazing experience. You know, to do a night dive, and be swimming with sharks on The Great Barrier Reef was quite an amazing thing. And there is something called phosphorescent, where people were actually diving off the boat at night and the water would just simply glitter, shine.
John: Kind of sparkling with different colors.
Che: Exactly. So a small type of plankton of such would just come to life or be sort of annoyed, I guess, so it was trying to scare off predators by this bright light. So that was an amazing moment. My travels through Australia took about ten months. And I was finding small jobs, fruit picking, doing the country, and doing a little bit of street performing. One of my hobbies
John: Street performing.
Che: Yeah.
John: What was that? What do you do? What kind of performance?
Che: Well, one of my hobbies growing up was doing magic and juggling. So I
John: Juggling.
Che: Yeah. So I
John: Wait a minute. In Japanese they would say, douzo. Douzo.
Che: No, no. No, no. I’m put on stage here. O.k. There you go. Juggling three balls just for John and his clod cast. There you go. Five, four, three, two, one. Whoo hoo.
John: He is juggling. I think he really is a juggler. Alright. So street performing and you got your scuba diving license. And I just want to say, I agree. I am also a licensed diver. The first time I went underwater was in New Jersey, actually. And there were some fish and that was interesting and just an amazing thing opened up to me. And then I went tropical diving, and the coral reef and the color and you just look through the mask like, is this a movie? Is this fantasy? It is a whole new world, so an incredible experience that diving. I continue to do it ‘til the present. I just love it. Street performing, picking fruit, and this was your first big adventure, this through Australia.
Che: Yeah. Exactly. And I broke up the trip after six months. I got a six-month’s renewable visa for Australia, and I went over to New Zealand for a few months. Some of the north, like Mozelt [ph?] Island, and this country is like a condensed sort of, I do not know, condensed version of just natural beauty. I mean, you do not have to go far in New Zealand to find another amazing type of scenery. So, yeah, I highly recommend that people who want to get out into the wilderness and outdoors to go over to New Zealand.
John: And where, your other travels? What other kinds of places did you go to that you can tell our viewers about?
Che: I continued through Asia, beginning with Timor, coming out of northern territories in Australia, and went through Nusa-tenggara, through Flores, and Lomboc and Bali, and Java and into Sumatra. A highlight of Sumatra was seeing the orangutans at the Rehabilitation Center in Bukit Lawang.
John: What a diverse country. You can find everything in Indonesia. I love Indonesia. I have only been there twice. I was there last year. But just the diversity of culture, the orangutans, and everything.
Che: And the foods. Yeah. It is a delight really to travel through Indonesia and the language is actually supposed to be the easiest on the planet, Bahasa Indonesian,
John: Apa kabar? Kabar baik. Yeah, great. O.k. Through Indonesia, so I have to say that I know Che is a very, very well traveled person. Let’s hear some of the other places you have been to.
Che: Oh.
John: The world wants to know your adventures.
Che: I do not know if I want to bore you with a list of places that I have been.
John: Yeah. Give us a general idea of some of the places.
Che: I continued up into Malaysia and Thailand and into Hong Kong and Taiwan, and I mentioned Korea, and I spent a lot awhile diving once again in the Philippines. And I went through China, and into Tibet, which I know you know very well. I had the experience of trekking around the holiest mountain, maybe in the world, who knows?
John: Which is?
Che: Well, you know better than I do.
John: Mount Kailas.
Che: There you go.
John: Gang Rimpoche in Tibetan language, Mount Kailash in English.
Che: This was an experience to stamp up small gompas or monasteries around this holy site.
John: I have not done that. I have not done that. I have not been there. I have been into Tibet four times, but I have not been to the holy mountain.
Che: It is a trip to get out there. It took about five days in the back of a dusty, very dusty truck. We were wearing surgical masks, about ten of us, as we went out to this holy mountain. And on the top of our truck was dried yak, and the driver and our guide were eating that at each stop.
John: Dried yak.
Che: Yeah. Along with the tsampa. And do not forget to try the buttered tea if you ever get in that region.
John: Try it, or maybe do not try it.
Che: Yeah. Yeah, so into Tibet and spent some time in Nepal trekking around the Annapurna circuit and base camp. And Katmandu was quite a reward for culinary delights after the yak and the buttered tea, to have the apple pie and the pizzas in Katmandu was quite a nice thing to have, and a soft, warm bed was a welcome.
John: I feel exactly the same way. I have done some hard travel in Tibet, and Katmandu, the capital of Nepal, in the Himalayas, it is a wonderful place, great, good restaurants and cheap and good food, and lots of people from around the world.
Che: Yeah. It is really is.
John: It is a comfortable place.
Che: It really is a mecca for travelers. It is a place where people kind of congregate from different places and kind of is a place to just relax and sort of retell all those adventure stories.
John: Kathmandu and Bangkok are two places you just meet travelers that you have seen in other places.
Che: Yeah.
John: They are huge travelers’ meccas.
Che: Exactly.
John: Katmandu being a bit smaller than Bangkok and kind of more in the mountains, and maybe a little more cultural things.
Che: And, yeah, my travels took me through Mexico and Central and South America, as well, where I spent about two years and that is where I.
John: Two years traveling through Central America and South America?
Che: Mexico and Central and South America took me about two years to get through. And we are talking about these sort of traveler Mecca places where people sort of, from all around the world, sort of congregate, traveler types. And Cusco would be the place, very close.
John: Which is in?
Che: Which is in Peru, which is very close to and kind of a heading off point when you go to adventure Machu Picchu, the old ruins out in Peru.
John: I do not like to ask favorites, because I really do not like it when people ask me, what is your favorite place? They are all- I like all the places I have been. Do you have any special places that you might want to go back, or something that had some historical or some cultural interest, a special note, something special you learned or someone special you met?
Che: I would say my time around Peru was quite magical for the people that I met, and some of the ceremonies that I went to. I went up into the mountains with a gentleman named Martin Grey, which has been traveling for many years to sacred sites around the world. And we spent a night out watching people dance in the middle of nowhere, just in the middle in the mountains with masks and costumes. And it was something, just really like something from a time gone by, something you would not expect still sort of exists to this day, and, yeah, people were very, sort of they kind of a trancelike state out there. So it was really something that I do not think a lot of sort of Westernized. See, I mean, I was the only traveler that was actually out there witnessing it.
John: Yeah. That is kind of- it is nice to get away from the masses and get to the places where- This was not a performance for tourists.
Che: No. No.
John: It was just part of their culture.
Che: Exactly.
John: Getting harder to find those things, authentic pieces of culture not just done for tourists.
Che: Yeah. I think so. I think there is sort of a human zoo sort of- a human zoo type of thing happening in a lot of sort of touristic areas. In Thailand you have the long necked people where you actually have to pay in order to get in there and sort of gawk at these people that have rings around their neck. In Mazamorra in Kenya, looking at the people there, there is villages to witness their sort of traditional looks and ways. And you have to pay money to get inside to see them. So I mean, yeah. For better or worse it is what it is.
John: It is what it is. So traveling through Central and South America, what is the predominant language in those areas?
Che: Spanish.
John: Spanish?
Che: Um hm.
John: And so is that where you learned Spanish?
Che: I took a little bit, a few classes in school. But, yeah, speaking it on the street is- yeah, is always going to be a very helpful and useful way of learning a language. I mean, one thing is take it in the classroom and applying it in real life. Yes.
John: Two years in the region, mostly Spanish speaking, except for Brazil, I guess.
Che: Exactly, which is Portuguese.
John: And Brazilians, many of them probably can speak Spanish.
Che: You know, it is interesting that when I speak to them, they can understand me. But when they speak to me, I cannot understand them.
John: They understand the Portuguese and the Spanish.
Che: Yes. This is a bit difficult. Yeah. I actually went to Brazil just before the summer carnival there. So that was incredible just to be able.
John: Big country, Brazil, the biggest in Latin America.
Che: It is. And at the time when I went there it was one of the most expensive traveling through the region, through South America. I did not stay there long, Rio de Janeiro and San Paulo and El Salvador is where I spent carnival, and I recommend, if you want to see a traditional carnival, that would be the place to go in contrast Rio, which is inside a football stadium and it is much more sort of a spectator.
John: Not out in the street.
Che: No. Not at all. It is inside a stadium. It has been sort of commercialized, you would say.
John: Wow. Did you make it all the way down to the tip?
Che: Chile and.
John: Yeah. How far down did you get?
Che: Yeah. I went to the bottom, as you do. I made my trip all the way overland from California, all the way to the tip of South America, Ushuaia, the tip of South America.
===== END OF Che interview part 2 ==============
[ Che Interview part 1 transcript | video page | podcast/audio page ]
